Ep. 558 The Economy of Things with PEAQ Token

In this episode of Crypto 101 we talk to Leonard Dorlöchter of PEAQ Token which is the native utility token of the peaq network and ecosystem – it is the lifeblood of the Economy of Things. The PEAQ token confers certain rights to token holders in the peaq ecosystem. These include; the ability to act as a validator, collaborator or nominator, the ability to participate in network governance, the ability to vote on which machines are subsidized, and the ability to participate in the decision-making process in relation to global upgrades and/or changes to the peaq network.  Check out their website for more information!

 

— TRANSCRIPT —

 

SPEAKERS

Bryce Paul, Aaron Malone

 

Bryce Paul  00:09

All right, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the crypto one on one podcast. I’m your host Bryce as always joined by my notorious compadres Mr. Aaron Malone, pizza mine. Malone. How’re you doing? Pete’s?

 

Aaron Malone  00:24

I’m doing great. I’m over in my new Airbnb here in via Olympia, in Sao Paulo. Feeling good. And hey, you know, something that I was thinking about. We don’t talk very much about how cryptocurrency is not just changing the way people transact. But the way machines and things can transact as well. This is another use case for blockchain that is extremely underrated. But it’s going to be a very critical part of our universe going forwards.

 

Bryce Paul  00:53

Ya know, we always talk about, you know, machine to machine transactions and the future of the world being run on smart contracts and what all that means. And guys, we’re gonna be diving into that, in some detail today with our guest. He goes by Leonard, aka Leo, last name, Doer lifter. And I think I actually nailed that. How’re you doing? Leo?

 

01:18

Very, very good. Yeah. Great to be here. And yeah, happy to dive in. And you You did nail on my last name. It’s, it’s fairly complicated.

 

Bryce Paul  01:27

I was doing warm up exercises backstage before the show. To make sure I had that pronunciation correctly. But you’re the co founder of peak, you guys are thinking about the economy of things. I used to know this as the Internet of Things, all these small little connected devices. But what do you guys build an over there?

 

01:49

Yeah, absolutely. It’s a it’s a massive term, right? The economy of things, economy between machines. So it actually goes back to 2017, where we started exploring the potential between IoT and blockchain. And it was quite clear to us back then already that all those smart connected machines are emerging, right? smart home devices, vehicles, robots, devices, and all of them at some point, sooner or later, can offer goods and services. So if you think about a vehicle, Robo taxi, we’ve heard that in the context of Tesla, they can drive around autonomously move people around and earn money from that. So for us, it was quite clear that this needs an open system, this needs a blockchain where all of those things can have an identity. And then they can say, Look, I’m offering this service right now for this price. And someone else can see this and buy this. Because if we think in terms of web to the traditional internet, as we know it today, you have one platform for one specific use case, but you don’t have an open ecosystem, where all of those things can like really transact and offer and consume goods and services. So it’s more than just one platform for, let’s say, car sharing. But on the same network, you can also charge your electric vehicles, you can find a parking spot, and all of those use cases. So it’s really an economy emerging based on smart machines.

 

Aaron Malone  03:21

That’s really cool. And all of this seems to be grouped under a new crypto niche called D pin, or decentralized physical infrastructure. Can you give us maybe a short list of some devices or services that would count as being part of deep him?

 

03:37

Absolutely. So we’re very happy that this is emerging now. And the whole space gets kind of a name and an umbrella on which people can identify those use cases. But there are there many great deepened use cases. So one, for example, just launched recently on peak which is called E loop. They are building decentralized network for like a decentralized car sharing service where people can invest into vehicles and their case, Tesla’s then they buy those Tesla’s those Tesla’s generate revenue, and the revenues being split between the people who invested into the Tesla’s So what happens now they democratize cash sharing, everyone now can very invest in and earn a part of a car sharing fleet. And another cool example is Natixis network. They’re building also on peak which is decentralized camera network, they built what they call the Internet of cameras, everyone can while they drive, put their smartphone in the car and map the street and real time, there’s a construction happening and accident was happening and so on. And for collecting that data, you’re being rewarded. And those are some some deepened use cases, but it goes into electric vehicle charging, neighbors being able to share the charging station with each other As 5g hotspots helium we know from the lower one, but they expand to 5g now, so communities can build Telecom, telco networks, where they share connectivity with each other. It’s really, yeah, there’s so many use cases,

 

Bryce Paul  05:16

it Do you think that this is going to create some kind of power shift? And if so, what does that new dynamic look like? What industries are going to be impacted? And I should say, as well,

 

05:28

I think for the first time in human history, it’s possible to build physical infrastructure in a decentralized way. Traditionally, we always had a big telco company building a telco network, that’s always will be there. But now it can be decentralized, further energy companies building massive energy grids, building energy production sites, and then kind of managing the grid. And actually, this, this is a good, good example. So the energy industry will be massively disrupted, we have more and more renewable energy sources, people can put solar panels on the roof top, they can generate energy heat pumps, that they can install heat pumps, so the energy grid is getting more and more decentralized. People are generating energy and can sell it and buy it from each other. They can sell it via charging sessions, and so on. So the energy grid is going to be very decentralized, and 10 years from now. And I think this is a cool example of how the power, which was traditionally with big energy companies, and which had to be organized in a very centralized way, can now be organized in a decentralized way, much more efficient and cheaper.

 

Bryce Paul  06:51

So is that the main draws that it’s, you know, efficient, and more cheaper. Are there some other merits of decentralization or this new kind of technology? Like, do people get more privacy over information is something you know, maybe more resilient against some kind of failure?

 

07:09

Yeah, privacy is definitely one aspect that you own your data, for example, and you can sell it the way you want. I believe the most important part that comes with deepend is really democratization. So we’re heading towards the age of automation right now. Check GPT AI is taking over, we see autonomous driving, the most common job in the US is driving a vehicle, I think it’s 5 million people who drive trucks and cars every day, they’re all going to be automated and 10 years. So what happens to them, right, some of them maybe find other jobs. But if the automated fleets are all controlled and owned by a few big companies, they make all the money, they create all the value. But if we can create deepens, where everyone can invest and participate in those autonomous fleets and pools of machines, like Robo taxis, everyone can earn from them, for example, II loop, right, who enables everyone to invest in cash sharing, and earn from it. So I really believe it’s, it’s a great tool, to decentralize, ownership, and also to democratize the money and the revenue that the age of automation is generating.

 

Aaron Malone  08:26

That’s really exciting, as I’m here in Sao Paulo, and for those of you who have never been Sao Paulo is like New York City, if it was the size of Los Angeles, it has just skyscrapers stretching out for eons and all directions. And if I were to say, Okay, we’re gonna have decentralized physical infrastructure be part of Sao Paulo, there’s just millions and millions, if not a billion devices that would be connected to that network. And then if you do that all over the world to major cities, you’re talking multiple billions of devices, all interacting, and doing transactions nonstop. How does a blockchain keep up with all this traffic? I mean, we see a theory I’m just barely able to keep up with NFT. minting. What have you guys built over there the table to handle all this?

 

09:13

Absolutely. Yes, scalability is, is a big big thing. And of course, like you’re saying so many micro transactions, so many sensors that only to transact. And we’re actually leveraging polka dot for for scalability. And there’s a very exciting update coming out now, which shifts away from the Para chain approach to to so called course I don’t want to get too technical. But basically, in a nutshell, polka dot allows us as the layer one blockchain to buy as much computational power from polka.as we need so we can scale up the transactions as we need them. If there are 1000 transactions, we buy that computational power 10,000 We buy that 100,000 We buy that so we have a very scalable way, leveraging polka.as A layer zero. And this really enables us to scale with demands on the network while keeping extremely low transaction fees, because that’s super important, right? They need to be very cheap the transactions, otherwise, those sensors won’t be able to transact.

 

Aaron Malone  10:20

Yeah, hundreds of fractions of a penny even. Now, yes. And polka dot core, a brand new thing that’s coming out is that the way to think about that as kind of like a cloud service, like a Amazon Web Services or Microsoft Azure that they’ve created?

 

10:35

Yes, you can basically rent space and course of validating transactions and blocks from our chain right from the peak layer one that can be validated and secured by polka dot. And you can really spice that up. So it’s based, it’s like you said, it’s comparable to cloud services. And this is this is pretty incredible. So we can compete with transaction throughput with the likes of Solana for example, because of polka dots architecture and what it what it enabled.

 

Bryce Paul  11:13

Wow, is that I mean, I know a lot of people, whenever they start talking about polka dot, they naturally talk about like, maybe what the decisions went into choosing that instead of Cosmos, do you find those like two pretty comparable platforms? And if so, like, what was your decision to go one way or the other?

 

11:30

Yeah, so that they have similar approaches, for sure. I mean, Cosmos is less connected than polka dot, right? You don’t need to connect to the polka dot network, to be part of the cosmos ecosystem of the cosmos ecosystem, you can simply build your own layer one and then connect it through the the protocol IBC. We decided for polka dot because of substrate as a framework, we really liked that, that framework that is used in the polka dot ecosystem, and also the ability to get to basically outsource security. And yeah, to also security. And all of the interoperability that comes with a para chain is a big one. If, if you saw like there’s quite a shift right now, a lot of independent Aetherium layer ones are working on becoming if you’re in layer two snap, because they don’t see the need to create their own set of validators secure the network, securing a blockchain network is a massive task, right, you need to put a lot of resources and energy behind that. So having the ability to outsource security to the polka dot relay chain as a massive advantage, and then having native interoperability with all those networks. So we can use business logic from from other polka dot para chains. And it’s an end. One other thing to add. It’s an incredible developer ecosystem. It’s the second biggest developer ecosystem on web three. So there are a lot of developers building in the polka dot ecosystem, which is great. There’s a lot of great code we can use.

 

Aaron Malone  13:13

That’s awesome. are big fans of polka dot over here as well. So one of the things that I was wondering, you know, they say data is the new oil. But what companies out there are really willing to fork out enormous amounts of money to pay for it to give all this data that’s being generated value?

 

13:32

That’s a very good question. And that’s actually one of the big problems, a lot of deep end models have. So deep and models are crowdsourcing data. But if then there’s not enough demand, and people are companies willing to pay for that data. The model doesn’t work, right? Because the rewards don’t really add up and the economics don’t make sense. So that’s something i i always recommend to any deepen that they really need to clearly identify the demand side creating supply as possible. We saw that with helium, they build up this massive LoRaWAN supply network, but then no one is yet using Laura one. So IoT connectivity standard connectivity, like it’s it’s not adopted enough yet. And therefore, the model doesn’t really work at least follow one for for 5g, it will work. On the deepened side, it’s the same thing, right? If you don’t have a clear target that is willing to pay for the data you’re providing, then it’s difficult. But there are great use cases. So for example, demo, they built a deeper for decentralized, for car data, right to build, build crowdsource car data, and there’s a lot of money behind mobility data, car data, things like road damage detection. You have road damage cities and gather I’m so interested in buying the data on where there’s road damage, you have data in terms of how the cars run and operated. Second Life. So cars, car data has quite some value. And yeah, it’s definitely a challenge to find the people who pay the oil money or the not the oil money, but the price that’s being paid for oil for for data, I guess the most valuable data is user data, right to profile people or to target them advertise what matters doing basically.

 

Bryce Paul  15:35

So So what is peak? Practically look like maybe on the consumer end of things? Do you download an app, start to you know, kind of, you know, select or suggest to which of your data streams kind of can get sold or purchased at and at what price? And that’s kind of how I’m conceptualizing it in my head. But I have no idea how how your app works, or if there is even an app, maybe it’s just a network?

 

16:01

Yeah. So because the platform for the apps actually similar to iOS. So it’s a it’s a development platform where developers can then build consumer facing applications. So they we don’t have an app directly. We do have a web app, where are multiple where people can interact with the network, work on their favorite deal applications and so on. But yet, it’s not it’s not consumer facing?

 

Bryce Paul  16:29

And so mainly a developer is, you know, logging on? And are, you know, are, are they creating these applications that then users can go download? Is that kind of how it’s envisioned?

 

16:42

Absolutely. For example, Netflix network, they’ve just released an app for it, which is called Drive and, and it’s the mobile app that you simply download, and you can really put it in your car. And when you drive, it collects data of the street and maps it and the people are getting rewarded. So this is a

 

Bryce Paul  17:03

reward tokens or some other currency.

 

17:07

Correct. They’re getting rewarded, and the name takes tokens. And this is an app that then uses the peak network, for example, functionalities, our identities, and so on. So the peak is the back end, basically. And applications, those deepens can leverage peak as a back end, to build the consumer facing applications.

 

Bryce Paul  17:29

What are some incentives to get getting people involved in these networks, or getting involved in data sharing applications and stuff? To keep them sticky? Like, what are incentives besides like, you know, more tokens and higher prices. And I kind of just remember, like, there was one token called step in, and it was like, you know, people all around the world were, you know, running around, and the further they ran every day, and they would track their steps online. And they would get paid and these steps and tokens, but then the price of the token crashed, and now nobody uses really the platform anymore. What are some other ways to keep people around.

 

18:09

So one way is, for example, that you providing data to certain network, let’s take matrix as an example, as well also get access to all the data that others are providing. So if you use the app and you provide value, you can also see where’s the construction, what is happening. So you’re basically becoming a free customer of the value that everyone else is generating. This is quite a cool way where you provide value and you get value back from the community. This is one way to reward people as an example, besides token rewards. And then of course, ultimately, the best reward is actually tokens that have sustainable value that don’t crash. And that’s why economics in deepens are so important. And a lot of projects haven’t got the right like exception as an example, right? Where, yeah, it’s it’s not a sustainable model. So this is where I think the next generation of deepens really need to put in a lot of effort. Because finding the demand side that is paying for the data that’s being provided that is paying for the goods and service that’s being provided as so important. That’s the cool thing about cash sharing. Everyone wants cash sharing. People just use the car and share or electric vehicle charging, you know, it’s there’s already a demand on the market. If you build a deepen on something where there’s already a demand that there’s real value being created that can be distributed 5g connectivity as well. It’s already out there, people want it. And that’s pretty, pretty good way to Yeah, to create sustainable reward streams for everyone who contributes.

 

Aaron Malone  19:53

That’s awesome. Let’s talk about the peak token. What were your thought processes and design The tokenomics Behind there in terms of supply and emission schedule, and, you know, what is the token do and when can we get our hands on it?

 

20:09

Yeah, so we spend a lot of time on the peak token, right? I mean, the the most important thing is utility, like, what is the real value of that token? What can people do with it. And so we spend a lot of time on designing utility going from basic things like transaction fees, right, and using it for reward mechanisms, to things like machine staking in the future, this is like future utility, where you can build a decentralized reputation system, staking the token, and, hey, this charging station is available. And it’s working, you stake on this. And if it doesn’t work, if it’s not available, you get punished, basically. So there are many different utilities. I mean, the most important one is really network usage, transaction fees. There’s also something which we call machine defi, where liquidity is being provided to fund machines and new assets that are being added to the network. And the token is also involved in that. When it comes to, yeah, to like, the total amount, there will be 4.2 billion. And then of course, people are vested right like, like the team is vested, investors are being invested, there’s a release schedule, we try to design it in a way that, of course, the project needs a lot of funding. So we need to allocate a good amount of tokens for investors making sure the project has enough funding, and then yet designing as healthy tokenomics as possible inflation, we keep very low at 2.2 Point 5% to start with. So there’s some inflation, but not too much than that will it’s called the deflationary model. So it decreases every year until it arrives at 1%. Inflation. And yeah, like, it’s all about creating real value string utility. And making sure that everyone that participates is is happy and is participating have a growing ecosystem in terms of timeline. So we’re building up a lot of traction on the test right now, test net right now, our Canary network crest has launched and there will be a token soon, this is kind of the this small cousin of peak, which is the Kusama equivalent of peak, and the peak network will be launching in q1 next year. That is the timeline we aim for. There’s a lot of attraction, also further funding that we’re onboarding. And yeah, like we have them, like our standard is to launch a very mature product. So when we launch the token and the network, it’s a very complete network in terms of functionality with a lot of traction, a lot of usage already. And this is how we launch. And that’s why it takes a bit but therefore it’s going to be a very, very solid launch.

 

Aaron Malone  23:08

Yeah, good things are worth waiting for.

 

Bryce Paul  23:11

Yeah, I was gonna say you want to test the airplane before you fly it. Good things are worth waiting for you. No. No, I love it. Man. This is incredible. And, you know, kind of, I’m curious what it was like building through a bear market? How was it that you were able to rally the troops and keep people, you know, focused? And looking forward? I mean, just speaking from, you know, as as a, you know, you’re a crypto founder, you know, there might be other people in the audience who are listening who are founders of other small businesses outside of the crypto sphere. And this might just be their hobby. And they’re, they would just want to know, from successful founders how to how to keep people motivated through tough cycles.

 

23:52

Yeah, I think the rational optimism helps a lot. And we had so many downs and apps as well. But it’s been very, very tough. And we had this massive vision all along. And getting funding for it many years ago before deepen was a thing. Of course, now with deep and becoming a thing, funds are looking into this, things get much, much easier. But years ago, this was much more difficult to get people behind us believing into that vision, IoT blockchain very hard thing to pull off. So we always just, we didn’t give up. That’s one thing. So I think resilience is extremely important. And then you just got to be irrationally optimistic, like, find a way to have keep hope and the spirit up even though things look really bad. And what I can say is, the longer you stay in the game, the more resilient you are, the more luck comes comes your way. So we start getting really lucky now. And it happens because we’ve been able to push through all The tough times and just able to do that. Now the timing is right, the timing is in our favor. And we had to be very patient and work very long and very hard until until this happened. So I can really say, being resilient and staying optimistic. And yeah, pushing through not giving up. This is I think, underrated.

 

Aaron Malone  25:25

Yeah, there’s many founders out there that are, you’re chasing their dreams, but they’re afraid to knock on that VC door, or they’re out an investor door, and do a presentation for fear of rejection. Or maybe they have been rejected a lot. And they don’t know when they’re ever going to get a guess. What kind of advice would you give to someone in that position right now, who’s just coming out of two brutal years of trying to get funding for anything.

 

25:51

When you get started speaking to investors, I, if I look back at our first pitch deck and our first pitches, they’ve been horrible, like, they’ve been so bad, but we were able to get now where we are because we just kept on going iterating, implementing feedback, getting rejected, but then still finding it’s a numbers game as well, right? You still, if you keep going, at some point, investors are also like, Wow, these guys have so much fire, they just keep going keep pushing, I believe in them, making something out of it. And then if you keep going and keep iterating, you can improve, you get better and better. Your pitch gets better and better the story you pivot, it makes more and more sense. But yet, it’s a journey. And it’s a long journey. One definitely needs a lot of patience and resilience. And I think some of the greatest stories, right? If we look at many of the great success stories, they’ve all been rejected so many times, I’ve read a Twitter thread the other day, Google tried to sell to I don’t know what it was, for 700k. They got rejected. There were so many crazy stories Airbnb raised a try to raise for such a long time got rejected. So some of the greatest success stories had to go through a lot of rejections and a lot of pushback. And it’s tough. But yeah, that’s also why I think there are so few successful companies compared to how many get started? Because it’s such a intense, yeah, process of getting through this rejection period.

 

Bryce Paul  27:36

It truly is, man, I could have really said it better. That was, that was definitely a great answer. You look back at all the other people who are successful and point to them and say, hey, you know, they’re, they face failure. And if you want to be worth anything, you got to go through challenges, you know, try out opportunities to rise up. So yeah, for anybody who’s at home, maybe thinking about some challenges that they’re going through, just rise up to the occasion push through, because everybody’s got him just matters how you respond to them. Now, man, what do you think about where this markets going? Just you know, in the near term, near to mid term, do you think that this Bitcoin halving is going to be pushing a lot of excitement back into the market over the next year? Or do you think, you know, we’re dead in the water right now? Where we sit? Where’s your head at

 

28:24

fairly bullish? I mean, what just happened with ripple winning the case against the SEC, BlackRock, ETF getting approved? So those are extremely great things happening? And then traditionally, yeah, there’s the halfing. One year later, the Bull Run starts, right, there’s even, there’s logic to it in the sense that the prices change, the rewards are changing, therefore, the Bitcoin moves up. And then of course, it’s a steep rally, and then it crashes at some point. But there’s a very clear pattern, which is related to halfing. So I’m pretty confident that the next half thing will have a similar effect like the ones before. And also if you look at how much is being built. In the last bear market, there was really a crypto winter, almost no capital got deployed. Very few builders. Now there’s so much capital that’s being deployed and still sits to being deployed. There are so many builders development activities super high. And I’m very confident that I mean, web three is here to stay. That’s that’s clear. But that the next Bull Run will be will be big and bigger than the last one. And I could imagine this happening and 2025 on the after half, but no financial advice.

 

Bryce Paul  29:45

Yeah, no, never is never is. We just always like to hear people’s opinion. Remember, we’re just random guys off the internet. That’s what I always say. You know, we’re not your financial advisors. We’re just out here talking shop about crypto. I’m actually curious. One kind of last question before we get to some closing questions, what other enterprises are out there that you think are really forward looking kind of in your space with, you know, deep in are there? You know, I don’t know if it’s the Googles of the world, or if there’s other companies that are really looking at this technology and applying it and partnering with crypto companies.

 

30:20

Yeah, one company I always like to highlight is Bosch, the German manufacturer, they are best known for appliances, right? People know them for that. But actually, the biggest part of the Bosch company is automotive. So that to one the biggest automotive supplier, so they’re heavily involved in Smart City mobility, and all of that. And they actually have a task force basically, that is working on the economy of things on their project since five years already. So they’re investing into web three, and finding new ways and business models since many years. And yeah, we’re working with them closely on a project within Gaia x, which is a European funded project. They’re very closely partnered with fetch AI, and ocean protocols also involved. So they do a lot and in terms of IoT mobility, and really see a great future in web three, which is very exciting. Because they also say like, Hey, there must be platform models, which are independent from the big hyper scalars. But where the platform is open, neutral, everyone can participate. And then I do do think that the biggest disruption will come from startups, though. So this is a new paradigm, right? Like, enterprises do innovation. They build POCs. But I think the groundbreaking new solutions going to be startups, for example, web three kashering, were all like, no, they will also work on solar panels, wind turbines, there’s a lot of disruption that can be done. And it’s usually new companies that that then become big, the new big companies, right, that are creating the big disruption.

 

Aaron Malone  32:08

Very cool. Well, let’s get to the final curtain. And then we’ll let you go get back to building the future IoT. Give a shout out real quick just to someone who’s really inspired you and Ben with you along the way that deserves some recognition and credit, we always want to give highlights and attention to the people that really deserve it in this space.

 

32:29

Amazing, I think who deserves is the most in our case is our advisor and investor Michael ganzer. He’s been the first one believing in us years ago, where it was really tough with we didn’t have much yet to show. He’s been leading Cisco, Europe, Cisco, Germany before so incredible executive who has been providing us with a lot of trust upfront, guiding us supporting us all along. And yeah, I think without him, we wouldn’t be here because he got other investors then also interested in joining us, and I think he has been, he’s been making a massive difference to our journey.

 

Bryce Paul  33:13

That’s incredible. And I know we already talked about Bosch, but I wanted to also ask out of other crypto companies that you might have seen along the way or maybe other platforms do you have any that you want to shout out that you think are really impressive, or maybe people should go build on or checkout and we outside of any of the other ones that we talked about today?

 

33:33

Yeah, I mean, there’s there’s of course Aetherium which we’ve been working with very early like a good friend of ours as a theorem core developer. I think what the theorem has brought to the space is incredible as its first smart contract as the first smart contract platform and also the way it’s set up and that’s led and and initially built by Gavin and Vitalik is fantastic and I know we’ve touched on polka dot already before but then Gavin went on to to build polka dot right and we’ve we’ve explored many different ecosystems and what really makes us as of what what stood out for us and polka dot why we chose polka.is The technology itself but also the people behind it like parity as a company, the way they they build the ecosystem resilient through Decentralized Governance, really pushing things forward where a lot of other big layer ones and they are twos are more in for the money and the story and you know, they still have a long way to go for resilience and decentralization. Poker is leading a lot of those things. They’re not that heavy on marketing. I think this is changing now. But fundamentally, there’s so much well done there. So want to give a shout out because I feel like not enough people speak about and really see the true value of poker and what’s been He both there.

 

Bryce Paul  35:00

Yeah, no, that’s incredible stuff. And, and just for those of those of us who are, you know, might be out here listening to the podcast, and this is, you know, early on in our journey, maybe we’re, you know, just a month into holding crypto or maybe just a year, whatever it is, what would you know? What kind of advice would you give to someone trying to navigate this whole crazy ecosystem?

 

35:24

Yeah, so the first thing is, it’s super volatile, like the asset class is very volatile. So don’t be scared by the quick ups and downs, this is part of it. If you look at the space for many years, right there, the bull and the bear cycles, ideally, one buys the bear cycle, and then holds or sells it. No financial advice again, but right, it’s like, there’s a good time to buy it. There are bad times to buy this, this is one thing and then really being not afraid by the roller coaster. Right? It goes up and it goes down. And that’s part of the game, think long term. And also, there are very solid projects, I think they’re called Blue, blue chips, right? They’re very solid projects have been around for a long time. And then there a lot of projects who might disappear tomorrow. So do your own research, really understand what what is behind that project, and have a long term mindset, right? Trading is difficult and think long term, and be calm about it. Don’t let

 

Bryce Paul  36:29

your emotions don’t let your emotions get in the way or get the best of you. I mean, it doesn’t work in life and relationships and anything like that. And it certainly doesn’t work in trading and success building. So up sort of stoic, calm attitude about everything.

 

36:44

And thinking long term, right? Like really thinking year and years, not a month, even decades, right? Like if you’re able to do this, you will win because you can see the bigger picture and have a long term strategy.

 

Bryce Paul  37:00

Amazing. Well, Leo, Dara lifter, the co founder of peak. Thank you so much for joining us today on the crypto 101 podcast. I hope you had fun.

 

37:10

Thanks a lot for having me. Yes. That’s great, guys.

 

Bryce Paul  37:14

Awesome. Well, everybody who’s listening at home, come on back later on in the week, or next week. We got guests all day every day. We’ll see you guys around.

 

 

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